MBR copy

[Ashish]

How many copies of MBR stored in disk. Sector 0 in disk keeps MBR copy.
Where are other copies of MBR and how to reach them.

[John John - MVP]

Post by Ashish
How many copies of MBR stored in disk. Sector 0 in disk keeps MBR copy.
Where are other copies of MBR and how to reach them.

As far as I know there are no backup copies of the MBR stored on disk.

John

[Ashish]

I think there are some more copies.
My hard drive Sector 0 is corrupt but when i use it as slave disk then i can
access all of its drive

Post by John John - MVP

Post by Ashish
How many copies of MBR stored in disk. Sector 0 in disk keeps MBR copy.
Where are other copies of MBR and how to reach them.

As far as I know there are no backup copies of the MBR stored on disk.
John

[Pegasus [MVP]]

Post by Ashish
I think there are some more copies.
My hard drive Sector 0 is corrupt but when i use it as slave disk then i
can access all of its drive

Post by John John - MVP

Post by Ashish
How many copies of MBR stored in disk. Sector 0 in disk keeps MBR copy.
Where are other copies of MBR and how to reach them.

As far as I know there are no backup copies of the MBR stored on disk.
John

If you can access your partitions when connecting the disk as a slave disk
then your partition table (which contains the details about your partitions)
is intact. I suggest you describe what your actual problem is before looking
for a solution.

[Ashish]

Post by Pegasus [MVP]
If you can access your partitions when connecting the disk as a slave disk
then your partition table (which contains the details about your
partitions) is intact. I suggest you describe what your actual problem is
before looking for a solution.

My motive is to know about partition information in a disk.
when connecting the disk as a slave disk (sector 0 does not contain
partition info in this disk, it's lost due to some reason) i am able to view
all drives for this disk.
As you wrote partition table is intact, i want to know where to find
partition table (in which sector) since sector 0 has no partition info.

[Pegasus [MVP]]

Post by Ashish

Post by Pegasus [MVP]
If you can access your partitions when connecting the disk as a slave
disk then your partition table (which contains the details about your
partitions) is intact. I suggest you describe what your actual problem is
before looking for a solution.

My motive is to know about partition information in a disk.
when connecting the disk as a slave disk (sector 0 does not contain
partition info in this disk, it's lost due to some reason) i am able to
view all drives for this disk.
As you wrote partition table is intact, i want to know where to find
partition table (in which sector) since sector 0 has no partition info.

Have a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record.

[John John - MVP]

Post by Ashish

Post by Pegasus [MVP]
If you can access your partitions when connecting the disk as a slave disk
then your partition table (which contains the details about your
partitions) is intact. I suggest you describe what your actual problem is
before looking for a solution.

My motive is to know about partition information in a disk.
when connecting the disk as a slave disk (sector 0 does not contain
partition info in this disk, it's lost due to some reason) i am able to view
all drives for this disk.
As you wrote partition table is intact, i want to know where to find
partition table (in which sector) since sector 0 has no partition info.

There are no other partition tables on the disk. How are you
determining that the MBR and Partition Table is missing or corrupt?
Which tools are you using to get to this conclusion?

If there is truly no partition table in sector 0 you are probably using
a dynamic disk... or other third party disk overlay tools.

John

[J de Boyne Pollard]

J> There are no other partition tables on the disk.  

Actually, there can be. See below. But you're correct that the
standard litany needs to be followed here:

J> How are you determining that the MBR and Partition
J> Table is missing or corrupt?
J> Which tools are you using to get to this conclusion?

<URL:http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/problem-
report-standard-litany.html>

J> If there is truly no partition table in sector 0 you are
J> probably using a dynamic disk... or other third party
J> disk overlay tools.

... or have upgraded to the EFI partition table (a.k.a. "GUID
partition table") scheme, which locates the partition table elsewhere,
and indeed does have multiple copies of the partition table. But it's
far more likely that M. Ashish is waving the infamous chocolate-
covered banana at European currency systems, as following the standard
litany will probably reveal.

<URL:http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/put-
down-the-chocolate-covered-banana.html>

[John John - MVP]

Post by J de Boyne Pollard
J> There are no other partition tables on the disk.
Actually, there can be. See below. But you're correct that the
J> How are you determining that the MBR and Partition
J> Table is missing or corrupt?
J> Which tools are you using to get to this conclusion?
<URL:http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/problem-
report-standard-litany.html>
J> If there is truly no partition table in sector 0 you are
J> probably using a dynamic disk... or other third party
J> disk overlay tools.
... or have upgraded to the EFI partition table (a.k.a. "GUID
partition table") scheme, which locates the partition table elsewhere,
and indeed does have multiple copies of the partition table.

Yes, the differentiation is that these (Dynamic, GUID) are not Basic MBR
disks, so they rely on other mechanisms to supply the information to the
operating system. Ashish needs to tell us more about his setup or else
we may all be chasing after a red herring here.

John

[J de Boyne Pollard]

J> Yes, the differentiation is that these (Dynamic, GUID) are not
J> Basic MBR disks, [...]

That is not in fact a correct description of the differentiation,
note. The distinction between Basic discs and Dynamic discs is
nothing to do with the fundamental partitioning scheme, and Basic
discs can use either the MBR partitioning scheme or the EFI
partitioning scheme. TechNet has a detailed and fairly clear
explanation of this.

[John John - MVP]

Post by J de Boyne Pollard
J> Yes, the differentiation is that these (Dynamic, GUID) are not
J> Basic MBR disks, [...]
That is not in fact a correct description of the differentiation,
note. The distinction between Basic discs and Dynamic discs is
nothing to do with the fundamental partitioning scheme, and Basic
discs can use either the MBR partitioning scheme or the EFI
partitioning scheme. TechNet has a detailed and fairly clear
explanation of this.

These other disks may be "basic" disks and they may use MBR style
partitions but they are not "Basic MBR" disks. They may have a retained
MBR for compatibility reasons but the partition information is also
stored in other locations whereas on basic MBR disks the partition
information is only to be found in the partition table in the MBR. This
is what I meant by the "differentiation".

John

[Ashish]

I'm using a hex viewer to see the contents of a disk. Search the first 4
bytes of sector 0 in entire disk, you will find it. But how to reach at that
address i dont know thats why i asked this question.
And about your second question i am using IDE disk as slave.

Post by Ashish

Post by Pegasus [MVP]
If you can access your partitions when connecting the disk as a slave
disk then your partition table (which contains the details about your
partitions) is intact. I suggest you describe what your actual problem
is before looking for a solution.

My motive is to know about partition information in a disk.
when connecting the disk as a slave disk (sector 0 does not contain
partition info in this disk, it's lost due to some reason) i am able to
view all drives for this disk.
As you wrote partition table is intact, i want to know where to find
partition table (in which sector) since sector 0 has no partition info.

There are no other partition tables on the disk. How are you determining
that the MBR and Partition Table is missing or corrupt? Which tools are
you using to get to this conclusion?
If there is truly no partition table in sector 0 you are probably using a
dynamic disk... or other third party disk overlay tools.
John

[John John - MVP]

What is your operating system and is it 32-bit or 64-bit?

The IDE slaved disk could still be a dynamic disk, look in the Disk
Management tool to see what kind of disk it is. Or use Diskpart to get
the disk information. At a command prompt enter DISKPART and then at
the diskpart prompt enter LIST DISK and see if your disk is shown as a
Dyn or Gpt disk.


Other tools that you can use to get information from the MBR and the
Partition Table:

Download Sector Inspector from Microsoft and use it to dump the Master
Boot Record and see if it jives with your findings. To dump the MBR:

SecInspect -n

(it will dump the MBR details from all your disks)

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=dd3ef22a-a586-4079-9489-c3ea14573fc4&DisplayLang=en


If you are using a 32-bit Windows OS use Symantec's ptedit32 utility to
see if it can read the partition table on the disk. Direct download
link for ptedit32:

ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/tools/pq/utilities/PTEDIT32.zip

John

Post by Ashish
I'm using a hex viewer to see the contents of a disk. Search the first 4
bytes of sector 0 in entire disk, you will find it. But how to reach at that
address i dont know thats why i asked this question.
And about your second question i am using IDE disk as slave.

Post by Ashish

Post by Pegasus [MVP]
If you can access your partitions when connecting the disk as a slave
disk then your partition table (which contains the details about your
partitions) is intact. I suggest you describe what your actual problem
is before looking for a solution.

My motive is to know about partition information in a disk.
when connecting the disk as a slave disk (sector 0 does not contain
partition info in this disk, it's lost due to some reason) i am able to
view all drives for this disk.
As you wrote partition table is intact, i want to know where to find
partition table (in which sector) since sector 0 has no partition info.

There are no other partition tables on the disk. How are you determining
that the MBR and Partition Table is missing or corrupt? Which tools are
you using to get to this conclusion?
If there is truly no partition table in sector 0 you are probably using a
dynamic disk... or other third party disk overlay tools.
John

[Ashish]

I'm using a hex viewer winhex
I said that there are some other copies of partition table in disk on following basis

In sector 0, partition table keeps the direct information of first drive say C (and direct information of next drive or extended part). For each drive it keeps total sectors used by drive and number of sector from current position after which drive data is start. I got these number of sectors (4 bytes) and search these in entire disk. I found these in some other sector which is copy of sector 0. Thats why i wrote how to find MBR copy.

I took one hard disk (IDE) and attached it with my PC as slave disk. Now my PC has 2 disks. My PC showing all drives from both disk.
Then i open disk 1(slave) in hex viewer and fill 0 at t sector 0 where partition table exists and save it.
After that i found my PC is still showing drives from both disk.
I could not check slave disk is dynamic disk or not but i can boot my PC from from this slave disk also. I'll check it and inform.

"Jonathan de Boyne Pollard" <J.deBoynePollard-***@NTLWorld.COM> wrote in message news:***@J.de.Boyne.Pollard.localhost...
There are no other partition tables on the disk. How are you determining that the MBR and Partition Table is missing or corrupt? Which tools are you using to get to this conclusion?


I'm using a hex viewer to see the contents of a disk. Search the first 4 bytes of sector 0 in entire disk, you will find it.


That's not the way to determine that the partition table is missing or corrupt. That's nothing to do with it. Please answer the question that you were actually asked, and follow the standard litany. How are you determining that the Partition Table is missing or corrupt?

[John John - MVP]

You haven't told us which Windows version you are using.

Try another tool to wipe the MBR then see if you can still boot with
this disk or if Windows can still see the partitions.

http://www.mbrwizard.com/index.php
MBRWizard! - The MBR Management Utility

To wipe the MBR on disk 1:

MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1

John

Post by Ashish
I'm using a hex viewer winhex
I said that there are some other copies of partition table in disk on following basis
In sector 0, partition table keeps the direct information of first drive
say C (and direct information of next drive or extended part). For each
drive it keeps total sectors used by drive and number of sector from
current position after which drive data is start. I got these number of
sectors (4 bytes) and search these in entire disk. I found these in some
other sector which is copy of sector 0. Thats why i wrote how to find
MBR copy.
I took one hard disk (IDE) and attached it with my PC as slave disk. Now
my PC has 2 disks. My PC showing all drives from both disk.
Then i open disk 1(slave) in hex viewer and fill 0 at t sector 0 where
partition table exists and save it.
After that i found my PC is still showing drives from both disk.
I could not check slave disk is dynamic disk or not but i can boot my PC
from from this slave disk also. I'll check it and inform.

Post by Ashish

Post by Ashish
There are no other partition tables on the disk. How are you
determining that the MBR and Partition Table is missing or
corrupt? Which tools are you using to get to this conclusion?

I'm using a hex viewer to see the contents of a disk. Search the
first 4 bytes of sector 0 in entire disk, you will find it.

That's not the way to determine that the partition table is missing
or corrupt. That's nothing to do with it. Please answer the
question that you were actually asked, and follow the standard
litany
<http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/problem-report-standard-litany.html>.
/How are you determining that the Partition Table is missing or
corrupt?/

[Ashish]

Platform- Windows 32 bits
OS- windows 2000

DISKPART is not recognized command on this OS. When i try to get disk type
through disk management, it did not tell me about disk type.
What's the difference between Dyn and Gpt disk from the point of partition
table view? For dyn disk, does partition table not store in sector 0?

Well thanks for the tools, i can check mbr.

Post by John John - MVP
You haven't told us which Windows version you are using.
Try another tool to wipe the MBR then see if you can still boot with this
disk or if Windows can still see the partitions.
http://www.mbrwizard.com/index.php
MBRWizard! - The MBR Management Utility
MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1
John

Post by Ashish
I'm using a hex viewer winhex
I said that there are some other copies of partition table in disk on following basis
In sector 0, partition table keeps the direct information of first drive
say C (and direct information of next drive or extended part). For each
drive it keeps total sectors used by drive and number of sector from
current position after which drive data is start. I got these number of
sectors (4 bytes) and search these in entire disk. I found these in some
other sector which is copy of sector 0. Thats why i wrote how to find MBR
copy.
I took one hard disk (IDE) and attached it with my PC as slave disk. Now
my PC has 2 disks. My PC showing all drives from both disk.
Then i open disk 1(slave) in hex viewer and fill 0 at t sector 0 where
partition table exists and save it. After that i found my PC is still
showing drives from both disk.
I could not check slave disk is dynamic disk or not but i can boot my PC
from from this slave disk also. I'll check it and inform.

Post by Ashish

Post by Ashish
There are no other partition tables on the disk. How are you
determining that the MBR and Partition Table is missing or
corrupt? Which tools are you using to get to this conclusion?

I'm using a hex viewer to see the contents of a disk. Search the
first 4 bytes of sector 0 in entire disk, you will find it.

That's not the way to determine that the partition table is missing
or corrupt. That's nothing to do with it. Please answer the
question that you were actually asked, and follow the standard
litany
<http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/problem-report-standard-litany.html>.
/How are you determining that the Partition Table is missing or
corrupt?/

[John John - MVP]

Post by Ashish
Platform- Windows 32 bits
OS- windows 2000

With Windows 2000 we can pretty well rule out GPT disk.

Post by Ashish
DISKPART is not recognized command on this OS.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927229
Windows 2000 Resource Kit Tools for administrative tasks

Post by Ashish
When i try to get disk type
through disk management, it did not tell me about disk type.

Look at the big buttons at the very left (Disk 0, Disk 1...) the disk
type is labeled below the disk number. Also, the coloured top border
for a dynamic disk/simple volume is olive green. To see what the colors
represent click View, and then click Settings and you will see the
different types of of partition/volumes and their default colours on the
Appearance tab.

Post by Ashish
What's the difference between Dyn and Gpt disk from the point of partition
table view?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/302873
Frequently asked questions about the GUID Partitioning Table disk
architecture

Post by Ashish
For dyn disk, does partition table not store in sector 0?

No, the disk may have a retained MBR but volume information is stored in
the LDM database at the end of each dynamic disk.

[quote]

"Dynamic disks use a private region of the disk to maintain a Logical
Disk Manager (LDM) database, which contains volume types, offsets,
memberships, and drive letters of each volume. The LDM database is also
replicated, so each dynamic disk knows about every other dynamic disk
configuration. This feature makes dynamic disks more reliable and
recoverable than basic disks."

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/329707
Best practices for using dynamic disks on Windows 2000-based computers

http://windows-internal.net/MS.Press-Microsoft.Windows.Int/0735619174/ch10lev1sec3.html
Volume Management

Post by Ashish
Well thanks for the tools, i can check mbr.

Keep us informed of your progress.

John

Post by Ashish

Post by John John - MVP
You haven't told us which Windows version you are using.
Try another tool to wipe the MBR then see if you can still boot with this
disk or if Windows can still see the partitions.
http://www.mbrwizard.com/index.php
MBRWizard! - The MBR Management Utility
MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1
John

Post by Ashish
I'm using a hex viewer winhex
I said that there are some other copies of partition table in disk on following basis
In sector 0, partition table keeps the direct information of first drive
say C (and direct information of next drive or extended part). For each
drive it keeps total sectors used by drive and number of sector from
current position after which drive data is start. I got these number of
sectors (4 bytes) and search these in entire disk. I found these in some
other sector which is copy of sector 0. Thats why i wrote how to find MBR
copy.
I took one hard disk (IDE) and attached it with my PC as slave disk. Now
my PC has 2 disks. My PC showing all drives from both disk.
Then i open disk 1(slave) in hex viewer and fill 0 at t sector 0 where
partition table exists and save it. After that i found my PC is still
showing drives from both disk.
I could not check slave disk is dynamic disk or not but i can boot my PC
from from this slave disk also. I'll check it and inform.

Post by Ashish

Post by Ashish
There are no other partition tables on the disk. How are you
determining that the MBR and Partition Table is missing or
corrupt? Which tools are you using to get to this conclusion?

I'm using a hex viewer to see the contents of a disk. Search the
first 4 bytes of sector 0 in entire disk, you will find it.

That's not the way to determine that the partition table is missing
or corrupt. That's nothing to do with it. Please answer the
question that you were actually asked, and follow the standard
litany
<http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/problem-report-standard-litany.html>.
/How are you determining that the Partition Table is missing or
corrupt?/

[ashish]

thanks for clearing all doubts
i'll continue this thread

Post by John John - MVP

Post by Ashish
Platform- Windows 32 bits
OS- windows 2000

With Windows 2000 we can pretty well rule out GPT disk.

Post by Ashish
DISKPART is not recognized command on this OS.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927229
Windows 2000 Resource Kit Tools for administrative tasks

Post by Ashish
When i try to get disk type through disk management, it did not tell me
about disk type.

Look at the big buttons at the very left (Disk 0, Disk 1...) the disk type
is labeled below the disk number. Also, the coloured top border for a
dynamic disk/simple volume is olive green. To see what the colors
represent click View, and then click Settings and you will see the
different types of of partition/volumes and their default colours on the
Appearance tab.

Post by Ashish
What's the difference between Dyn and Gpt disk from the point of
partition table view?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/302873
Frequently asked questions about the GUID Partitioning Table disk
architecture

Post by Ashish
For dyn disk, does partition table not store in sector 0?

No, the disk may have a retained MBR but volume information is stored in
the LDM database at the end of each dynamic disk.
[quote]
"Dynamic disks use a private region of the disk to maintain a Logical Disk
Manager (LDM) database, which contains volume types, offsets, memberships,
and drive letters of each volume. The LDM database is also replicated, so
each dynamic disk knows about every other dynamic disk configuration. This
feature makes dynamic disks more reliable and recoverable than basic
disks."
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/329707
Best practices for using dynamic disks on Windows 2000-based computers
http://windows-internal.net/MS.Press-Microsoft.Windows.Int/0735619174/ch10lev1sec3.html
Volume Management

Post by Ashish
Well thanks for the tools, i can check mbr.

Keep us informed of your progress.
John

Post by Ashish

Post by John John - MVP
You haven't told us which Windows version you are using.
Try another tool to wipe the MBR then see if you can still boot with
this disk or if Windows can still see the partitions.
http://www.mbrwizard.com/index.php
MBRWizard! - The MBR Management Utility
MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1
John

Post by Ashish
I'm using a hex viewer winhex
I said that there are some other copies of partition table in disk on following basis
In sector 0, partition table keeps the direct information of first
drive say C (and direct information of next drive or extended part).
For each drive it keeps total sectors used by drive and number of
sector from current position after which drive data is start. I got
these number of sectors (4 bytes) and search these in entire disk. I
found these in some other sector which is copy of sector 0. Thats why i
wrote how to find MBR copy.
I took one hard disk (IDE) and attached it with my PC as slave disk.
Now my PC has 2 disks. My PC showing all drives from both disk.
Then i open disk 1(slave) in hex viewer and fill 0 at t sector 0 where
partition table exists and save it. After that i found my PC is still
showing drives from both disk.
I could not check slave disk is dynamic disk or not but i can boot my
PC from from this slave disk also. I'll check it and inform.

Post by Ashish

Post by Ashish
There are no other partition tables on the disk. How are you
determining that the MBR and Partition Table is missing or
corrupt? Which tools are you using to get to this conclusion?

I'm using a hex viewer to see the contents of a disk. Search the
first 4 bytes of sector 0 in entire disk, you will find it.

That's not the way to determine that the partition table is missing
or corrupt. That's nothing to do with it. Please answer the
question that you were actually asked, and follow the standard
litany
<http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/problem-report-standard-litany.html>.
/How are you determining that the Partition Table is missing or
corrupt?/

[Ashish]

Thanks for providing all info. Let me explain my problem now

Platform windows (32 bits), OS-win2000
disk1-
type basic (partition table start at sector 0) confirmed
number of drives = 3 (c,d,e)
disk2-
type basic (partition table start at sector 0) confirmed
number of drives = 2 (f,g)

After system boot successfully it shows total 5 drives (c,d,e,f,g).
I open disk2 in hex viewer and fill 0 at sector 0 where partition table
exists and save it.
Run secinspect. exe with -n option, it does not show any drive for disk2.
Also try with PTEDIT32, it's also not showing any drive on disk 2. And
before deleting partition table for disk2 both tools were showing drives on
disk2.
While system is still showing all 5 drives and i can open any drive through
window explorer.

So it means either there is any other copy of MBR stored on disk (which i
asked before) or system keeps all drive info somewhere (i dont know where).
please suggest.

Post by John John - MVP

Post by Ashish
Platform- Windows 32 bits
OS- windows 2000

With Windows 2000 we can pretty well rule out GPT disk.

Post by Ashish
DISKPART is not recognized command on this OS.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927229
Windows 2000 Resource Kit Tools for administrative tasks

Post by Ashish
When i try to get disk type through disk management, it did not tell me
about disk type.

Look at the big buttons at the very left (Disk 0, Disk 1...) the disk type
is labeled below the disk number. Also, the coloured top border for a
dynamic disk/simple volume is olive green. To see what the colors
represent click View, and then click Settings and you will see the
different types of of partition/volumes and their default colours on the
Appearance tab.

Post by Ashish
What's the difference between Dyn and Gpt disk from the point of
partition table view?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/302873
Frequently asked questions about the GUID Partitioning Table disk
architecture

Post by Ashish
For dyn disk, does partition table not store in sector 0?

No, the disk may have a retained MBR but volume information is stored in
the LDM database at the end of each dynamic disk.
[quote]
"Dynamic disks use a private region of the disk to maintain a Logical Disk
Manager (LDM) database, which contains volume types, offsets, memberships,
and drive letters of each volume. The LDM database is also replicated, so
each dynamic disk knows about every other dynamic disk configuration. This
feature makes dynamic disks more reliable and recoverable than basic
disks."
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/329707
Best practices for using dynamic disks on Windows 2000-based computers
http://windows-internal.net/MS.Press-Microsoft.Windows.Int/0735619174/ch10lev1sec3.html
Volume Management

Post by Ashish
Well thanks for the tools, i can check mbr.

Keep us informed of your progress.
John

Post by Ashish

Post by John John - MVP
You haven't told us which Windows version you are using.
Try another tool to wipe the MBR then see if you can still boot with
this disk or if Windows can still see the partitions.
http://www.mbrwizard.com/index.php
MBRWizard! - The MBR Management Utility
MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1
John

Post by Ashish
I'm using a hex viewer winhex
I said that there are some other copies of partition table in disk on following basis
In sector 0, partition table keeps the direct information of first
drive say C (and direct information of next drive or extended part).
For each drive it keeps total sectors used by drive and number of
sector from current position after which drive data is start. I got
these number of sectors (4 bytes) and search these in entire disk. I
found these in some other sector which is copy of sector 0. Thats why i
wrote how to find MBR copy.
I took one hard disk (IDE) and attached it with my PC as slave disk.
Now my PC has 2 disks. My PC showing all drives from both disk.
Then i open disk 1(slave) in hex viewer and fill 0 at t sector 0 where
partition table exists and save it. After that i found my PC is still
showing drives from both disk.
I could not check slave disk is dynamic disk or not but i can boot my
PC from from this slave disk also. I'll check it and inform.

Post by Ashish

Post by Ashish
There are no other partition tables on the disk. How are you
determining that the MBR and Partition Table is missing or
corrupt? Which tools are you using to get to this conclusion?

I'm using a hex viewer to see the contents of a disk. Search the
first 4 bytes of sector 0 in entire disk, you will find it.

That's not the way to determine that the partition table is missing
or corrupt. That's nothing to do with it. Please answer the
question that you were actually asked, and follow the standard
litany
<http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/problem-report-standard-litany.html>.
/How are you determining that the Partition Table is missing or
corrupt?/

[John John - MVP]

And this persists after you reboot the machine?

You say: "I open disk2 in hex viewer and fill 0 at sector 0 where
partition table exists and save it"

From the information that you gave us you have two hard disks, this
means that you have Disk 0 and Disk 1, disk ordinals start at number 0.
If you are opening Disk 2 with the hex viewer I don't know where this
third disk is coming from, you should be editing Disk 1, but I don't
know which hex viewer you are using so I don't know how it presents the
disks to you.

Use MBRWiz to wipe sector 0 and see if things change.

MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1

John

Post by Ashish
Thanks for providing all info. Let me explain my problem now
Platform windows (32 bits), OS-win2000
disk1-
type basic (partition table start at sector 0) confirmed
number of drives = 3 (c,d,e)
disk2-
type basic (partition table start at sector 0) confirmed
number of drives = 2 (f,g)
After system boot successfully it shows total 5 drives (c,d,e,f,g).
I open disk2 in hex viewer and fill 0 at sector 0 where partition table
exists and save it.
Run secinspect. exe with -n option, it does not show any drive for disk2.
Also try with PTEDIT32, it's also not showing any drive on disk 2. And
before deleting partition table for disk2 both tools were showing drives on
disk2.
While system is still showing all 5 drives and i can open any drive through
window explorer.
So it means either there is any other copy of MBR stored on disk (which i
asked before) or system keeps all drive info somewhere (i dont know where).
please suggest.

Post by John John - MVP

Post by Ashish
Platform- Windows 32 bits
OS- windows 2000

With Windows 2000 we can pretty well rule out GPT disk.

Post by Ashish
DISKPART is not recognized command on this OS.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927229
Windows 2000 Resource Kit Tools for administrative tasks

Post by Ashish
When i try to get disk type through disk management, it did not tell me
about disk type.

Look at the big buttons at the very left (Disk 0, Disk 1...) the disk type
is labeled below the disk number. Also, the coloured top border for a
dynamic disk/simple volume is olive green. To see what the colors
represent click View, and then click Settings and you will see the
different types of of partition/volumes and their default colours on the
Appearance tab.

Post by Ashish
What's the difference between Dyn and Gpt disk from the point of
partition table view?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/302873
Frequently asked questions about the GUID Partitioning Table disk
architecture

Post by Ashish
For dyn disk, does partition table not store in sector 0?

No, the disk may have a retained MBR but volume information is stored in
the LDM database at the end of each dynamic disk.
[quote]
"Dynamic disks use a private region of the disk to maintain a Logical Disk
Manager (LDM) database, which contains volume types, offsets, memberships,
and drive letters of each volume. The LDM database is also replicated, so
each dynamic disk knows about every other dynamic disk configuration. This
feature makes dynamic disks more reliable and recoverable than basic
disks."
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/329707
Best practices for using dynamic disks on Windows 2000-based computers
http://windows-internal.net/MS.Press-Microsoft.Windows.Int/0735619174/ch10lev1sec3.html
Volume Management

Post by Ashish
Well thanks for the tools, i can check mbr.

Keep us informed of your progress.
John

Post by Ashish

Post by John John - MVP
You haven't told us which Windows version you are using.
Try another tool to wipe the MBR then see if you can still boot with
this disk or if Windows can still see the partitions.
http://www.mbrwizard.com/index.php
MBRWizard! - The MBR Management Utility
MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1
John

Post by Ashish
I'm using a hex viewer winhex
I said that there are some other copies of partition table in disk on
following basis
In sector 0, partition table keeps the direct information of first
drive say C (and direct information of next drive or extended part).
For each drive it keeps total sectors used by drive and number of
sector from current position after which drive data is start. I got
these number of sectors (4 bytes) and search these in entire disk. I
found these in some other sector which is copy of sector 0. Thats why i
wrote how to find MBR copy.
I took one hard disk (IDE) and attached it with my PC as slave disk.
Now my PC has 2 disks. My PC showing all drives from both disk.
Then i open disk 1(slave) in hex viewer and fill 0 at t sector 0 where
partition table exists and save it. After that i found my PC is still
showing drives from both disk.
I could not check slave disk is dynamic disk or not but i can boot my
PC from from this slave disk also. I'll check it and inform.

Post by Ashish

Post by Ashish
There are no other partition tables on the disk. How are you
determining that the MBR and Partition Table is missing or
corrupt? Which tools are you using to get to this conclusion?

I'm using a hex viewer to see the contents of a disk. Search the
first 4 bytes of sector 0 in entire disk, you will find it.

That's not the way to determine that the partition table is missing
or corrupt. That's nothing to do with it. Please answer the
question that you were actually asked, and follow the standard
litany
<http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/problem-report-standard-litany.html>.
/How are you determining that the Partition Table is missing or
corrupt?/

[Ashish]

Yes i'm using 2 disk. Disk 0 and disk1. And i delete partition table for
disk 1 using a hex viewer Winhex.
After deleting it secinspect program did no show any drive for disk 1.
I did not try after reboot but i think my computer (window explorer) will
not show any drive from disk1. i'll confirm it. But the question is where OS
keeps all drives info. When i delete partition table for disk 1 it should
not show any drive from disk 1 but it's still showing.

Post by John John - MVP
And this persists after you reboot the machine?
You say: "I open disk2 in hex viewer and fill 0 at sector 0 where
partition table exists and save it"
From the information that you gave us you have two hard disks, this means
that you have Disk 0 and Disk 1, disk ordinals start at number 0. If you
are opening Disk 2 with the hex viewer I don't know where this third disk
is coming from, you should be editing Disk 1, but I don't know which hex
viewer you are using so I don't know how it presents the disks to you.
Use MBRWiz to wipe sector 0 and see if things change.
MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1
John

Post by Ashish
Thanks for providing all info. Let me explain my problem now
Platform windows (32 bits), OS-win2000
disk1-
type basic (partition table start at sector 0) confirmed
number of drives = 3 (c,d,e)
disk2-
type basic (partition table start at sector 0) confirmed
number of drives = 2 (f,g)
After system boot successfully it shows total 5 drives (c,d,e,f,g).
I open disk2 in hex viewer and fill 0 at sector 0 where partition table
exists and save it.
Run secinspect. exe with -n option, it does not show any drive for disk2.
Also try with PTEDIT32, it's also not showing any drive on disk 2. And
before deleting partition table for disk2 both tools were showing drives
on disk2.
While system is still showing all 5 drives and i can open any drive
through window explorer.
So it means either there is any other copy of MBR stored on disk (which i
asked before) or system keeps all drive info somewhere (i dont know where).
please suggest.

Post by John John - MVP

Post by Ashish
Platform- Windows 32 bits
OS- windows 2000

With Windows 2000 we can pretty well rule out GPT disk.

Post by Ashish
DISKPART is not recognized command on this OS.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927229
Windows 2000 Resource Kit Tools for administrative tasks

Post by Ashish
When i try to get disk type through disk management, it did not tell me
about disk type.

Look at the big buttons at the very left (Disk 0, Disk 1...) the disk
type is labeled below the disk number. Also, the coloured top border
for a dynamic disk/simple volume is olive green. To see what the colors
represent click View, and then click Settings and you will see the
different types of of partition/volumes and their default colours on the
Appearance tab.

Post by Ashish
What's the difference between Dyn and Gpt disk from the point of
partition table view?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/302873
Frequently asked questions about the GUID Partitioning Table disk
architecture

Post by Ashish
For dyn disk, does partition table not store in sector 0?

No, the disk may have a retained MBR but volume information is stored in
the LDM database at the end of each dynamic disk.
[quote]
"Dynamic disks use a private region of the disk to maintain a Logical
Disk Manager (LDM) database, which contains volume types, offsets,
memberships, and drive letters of each volume. The LDM database is also
replicated, so each dynamic disk knows about every other dynamic disk
configuration. This feature makes dynamic disks more reliable and
recoverable than basic disks."
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/329707
Best practices for using dynamic disks on Windows 2000-based computers
http://windows-internal.net/MS.Press-Microsoft.Windows.Int/0735619174/ch10lev1sec3.html
Volume Management

Post by Ashish
Well thanks for the tools, i can check mbr.

Keep us informed of your progress.
John

Post by Ashish

Post by John John - MVP
You haven't told us which Windows version you are using.
Try another tool to wipe the MBR then see if you can still boot with
this disk or if Windows can still see the partitions.
http://www.mbrwizard.com/index.php
MBRWizard! - The MBR Management Utility
MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1
John

Post by Ashish
I'm using a hex viewer winhex
I said that there are some other copies of partition table in disk on
following basis
In sector 0, partition table keeps the direct information of first
drive say C (and direct information of next drive or extended part).
For each drive it keeps total sectors used by drive and number of
sector from current position after which drive data is start. I got
these number of sectors (4 bytes) and search these in entire disk. I
found these in some other sector which is copy of sector 0. Thats why
i wrote how to find MBR copy.
I took one hard disk (IDE) and attached it with my PC as slave disk.
Now my PC has 2 disks. My PC showing all drives from both disk.
Then i open disk 1(slave) in hex viewer and fill 0 at t sector 0
where partition table exists and save it. After that i found my PC is
still showing drives from both disk.
I could not check slave disk is dynamic disk or not but i can boot my
PC from from this slave disk also. I'll check it and inform.
"Jonathan de Boyne Pollard"

Post by Ashish

Post by Ashish
There are no other partition tables on the disk. How are you
determining that the MBR and Partition Table is missing or
corrupt? Which tools are you using to get to this conclusion?

I'm using a hex viewer to see the contents of a disk. Search the
first 4 bytes of sector 0 in entire disk, you will find it.

That's not the way to determine that the partition table is missing
or corrupt. That's nothing to do with it. Please answer the
question that you were actually asked, and follow the standard
litany
<http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/problem-report-standard-litany.html>.
/How are you determining that the Partition Table is missing or
corrupt?/

[John John - MVP]

I'm going to pull out my Windows 2000 box and do some tests. Are you
using the paid WinHex version? As far as I know the free version
doesn't save any writing that you do to the disk. I'm going to do my
tests with Diskprobe... or some other free disk editor that I can think
of. I have to run errands right now, I'll be back in a few hours.

John

Post by Ashish
Yes i'm using 2 disk. Disk 0 and disk1. And i delete partition table for
disk 1 using a hex viewer Winhex.
After deleting it secinspect program did no show any drive for disk 1.
I did not try after reboot but i think my computer (window explorer) will
not show any drive from disk1. i'll confirm it. But the question is where OS
keeps all drives info. When i delete partition table for disk 1 it should
not show any drive from disk 1 but it's still showing.

Post by John John - MVP
And this persists after you reboot the machine?
You say: "I open disk2 in hex viewer and fill 0 at sector 0 where
partition table exists and save it"
From the information that you gave us you have two hard disks, this means
that you have Disk 0 and Disk 1, disk ordinals start at number 0. If you
are opening Disk 2 with the hex viewer I don't know where this third disk
is coming from, you should be editing Disk 1, but I don't know which hex
viewer you are using so I don't know how it presents the disks to you.
Use MBRWiz to wipe sector 0 and see if things change.
MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1
John

Post by Ashish
Thanks for providing all info. Let me explain my problem now
Platform windows (32 bits), OS-win2000
disk1-
type basic (partition table start at sector 0) confirmed
number of drives = 3 (c,d,e)
disk2-
type basic (partition table start at sector 0) confirmed
number of drives = 2 (f,g)
After system boot successfully it shows total 5 drives (c,d,e,f,g).
I open disk2 in hex viewer and fill 0 at sector 0 where partition table
exists and save it.
Run secinspect. exe with -n option, it does not show any drive for disk2.
Also try with PTEDIT32, it's also not showing any drive on disk 2. And
before deleting partition table for disk2 both tools were showing drives
on disk2.
While system is still showing all 5 drives and i can open any drive
through window explorer.
So it means either there is any other copy of MBR stored on disk (which i
asked before) or system keeps all drive info somewhere (i dont know where).
please suggest.

Post by John John - MVP

Post by Ashish
Platform- Windows 32 bits
OS- windows 2000

With Windows 2000 we can pretty well rule out GPT disk.

Post by Ashish
DISKPART is not recognized command on this OS.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927229
Windows 2000 Resource Kit Tools for administrative tasks

Post by Ashish
When i try to get disk type through disk management, it did not tell me
about disk type.

Look at the big buttons at the very left (Disk 0, Disk 1...) the disk
type is labeled below the disk number. Also, the coloured top border
for a dynamic disk/simple volume is olive green. To see what the colors
represent click View, and then click Settings and you will see the
different types of of partition/volumes and their default colours on the
Appearance tab.

Post by Ashish
What's the difference between Dyn and Gpt disk from the point of
partition table view?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/302873
Frequently asked questions about the GUID Partitioning Table disk
architecture

Post by Ashish
For dyn disk, does partition table not store in sector 0?

No, the disk may have a retained MBR but volume information is stored in
the LDM database at the end of each dynamic disk.
[quote]
"Dynamic disks use a private region of the disk to maintain a Logical
Disk Manager (LDM) database, which contains volume types, offsets,
memberships, and drive letters of each volume. The LDM database is also
replicated, so each dynamic disk knows about every other dynamic disk
configuration. This feature makes dynamic disks more reliable and
recoverable than basic disks."
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/329707
Best practices for using dynamic disks on Windows 2000-based computers
http://windows-internal.net/MS.Press-Microsoft.Windows.Int/0735619174/ch10lev1sec3.html
Volume Management

Post by Ashish
Well thanks for the tools, i can check mbr.

Keep us informed of your progress.
John

Post by Ashish

Post by John John - MVP
You haven't told us which Windows version you are using.
Try another tool to wipe the MBR then see if you can still boot with
this disk or if Windows can still see the partitions.
http://www.mbrwizard.com/index.php
MBRWizard! - The MBR Management Utility
MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1
John

Post by Ashish
I'm using a hex viewer winhex
I said that there are some other copies of partition table in disk on
following basis
In sector 0, partition table keeps the direct information of first
drive say C (and direct information of next drive or extended part).
For each drive it keeps total sectors used by drive and number of
sector from current position after which drive data is start. I got
these number of sectors (4 bytes) and search these in entire disk. I
found these in some other sector which is copy of sector 0. Thats why
i wrote how to find MBR copy.
I took one hard disk (IDE) and attached it with my PC as slave disk.
Now my PC has 2 disks. My PC showing all drives from both disk.
Then i open disk 1(slave) in hex viewer and fill 0 at t sector 0
where partition table exists and save it. After that i found my PC is
still showing drives from both disk.
I could not check slave disk is dynamic disk or not but i can boot my
PC from from this slave disk also. I'll check it and inform.
"Jonathan de Boyne Pollard"

Post by Ashish

Post by Ashish
There are no other partition tables on the disk. How are you
determining that the MBR and Partition Table is missing or
corrupt? Which tools are you using to get to this conclusion?

I'm using a hex viewer to see the contents of a disk. Search the
first 4 bytes of sector 0 in entire disk, you will find it.

That's not the way to determine that the partition table is missing
or corrupt. That's nothing to do with it. Please answer the
question that you were actually asked, and follow the standard
litany
<http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/problem-report-standard-litany.html>.
/How are you determining that the Partition Table is missing or
corrupt?/

[John John - MVP]

I cannot replicate your findings. I tried with my Windows 2000 SP4 box
and Acronis Disk Editor as well as Diskprobe. I create 4 primary
partitions on my test disk then I zero out the partition table (bytes
446 to 509 (1BE-1FD)) and the disk and its drives do not show up in
Windows Explorer, (no reboot required). I start the Disk Management
tool and upon opening the Write Signature and Upgrade Disk wizard
automatically starts, (even though I left the signature at AA55h
intact), and the whole disk is shown as unallocated. After zeroing out
the partition table Acronis Disk Director also reports the whole disk as
unallocated.

I don't know what you are doing but I can only surmise that you are
zeroing the wrong bytes or that you are not saving the changes, or that
your disk editor doesn't commit the changes to the disk.

John

Post by Ashish
Yes i'm using 2 disk. Disk 0 and disk1. And i delete partition table for
disk 1 using a hex viewer Winhex.
After deleting it secinspect program did no show any drive for disk 1.
I did not try after reboot but i think my computer (window explorer) will
not show any drive from disk1. i'll confirm it. But the question is where OS
keeps all drives info. When i delete partition table for disk 1 it should
not show any drive from disk 1 but it's still showing.

Post by John John - MVP
And this persists after you reboot the machine?
You say: "I open disk2 in hex viewer and fill 0 at sector 0 where
partition table exists and save it"
From the information that you gave us you have two hard disks, this means
that you have Disk 0 and Disk 1, disk ordinals start at number 0. If you
are opening Disk 2 with the hex viewer I don't know where this third disk
is coming from, you should be editing Disk 1, but I don't know which hex
viewer you are using so I don't know how it presents the disks to you.
Use MBRWiz to wipe sector 0 and see if things change.
MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1
John

Post by Ashish
Thanks for providing all info. Let me explain my problem now
Platform windows (32 bits), OS-win2000
disk1-
type basic (partition table start at sector 0) confirmed
number of drives = 3 (c,d,e)
disk2-
type basic (partition table start at sector 0) confirmed
number of drives = 2 (f,g)
After system boot successfully it shows total 5 drives (c,d,e,f,g).
I open disk2 in hex viewer and fill 0 at sector 0 where partition table
exists and save it.
Run secinspect. exe with -n option, it does not show any drive for disk2.
Also try with PTEDIT32, it's also not showing any drive on disk 2. And
before deleting partition table for disk2 both tools were showing drives
on disk2.
While system is still showing all 5 drives and i can open any drive
through window explorer.
So it means either there is any other copy of MBR stored on disk (which i
asked before) or system keeps all drive info somewhere (i dont know where).
please suggest.

Post by John John - MVP

Post by Ashish
Platform- Windows 32 bits
OS- windows 2000

With Windows 2000 we can pretty well rule out GPT disk.

Post by Ashish
DISKPART is not recognized command on this OS.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927229
Windows 2000 Resource Kit Tools for administrative tasks

Post by Ashish
When i try to get disk type through disk management, it did not tell me
about disk type.

Look at the big buttons at the very left (Disk 0, Disk 1...) the disk
type is labeled below the disk number. Also, the coloured top border
for a dynamic disk/simple volume is olive green. To see what the colors
represent click View, and then click Settings and you will see the
different types of of partition/volumes and their default colours on the
Appearance tab.

Post by Ashish
What's the difference between Dyn and Gpt disk from the point of
partition table view?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/302873
Frequently asked questions about the GUID Partitioning Table disk
architecture

Post by Ashish
For dyn disk, does partition table not store in sector 0?

No, the disk may have a retained MBR but volume information is stored in
the LDM database at the end of each dynamic disk.
[quote]
"Dynamic disks use a private region of the disk to maintain a Logical
Disk Manager (LDM) database, which contains volume types, offsets,
memberships, and drive letters of each volume. The LDM database is also
replicated, so each dynamic disk knows about every other dynamic disk
configuration. This feature makes dynamic disks more reliable and
recoverable than basic disks."
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/329707
Best practices for using dynamic disks on Windows 2000-based computers
http://windows-internal.net/MS.Press-Microsoft.Windows.Int/0735619174/ch10lev1sec3.html
Volume Management

Post by Ashish
Well thanks for the tools, i can check mbr.

Keep us informed of your progress.
John

Post by Ashish

Post by John John - MVP
You haven't told us which Windows version you are using.
Try another tool to wipe the MBR then see if you can still boot with
this disk or if Windows can still see the partitions.
http://www.mbrwizard.com/index.php
MBRWizard! - The MBR Management Utility
MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1
John

Post by Ashish
I'm using a hex viewer winhex
I said that there are some other copies of partition table in disk on
following basis
In sector 0, partition table keeps the direct information of first
drive say C (and direct information of next drive or extended part).
For each drive it keeps total sectors used by drive and number of
sector from current position after which drive data is start. I got
these number of sectors (4 bytes) and search these in entire disk. I
found these in some other sector which is copy of sector 0. Thats why
i wrote how to find MBR copy.
I took one hard disk (IDE) and attached it with my PC as slave disk.
Now my PC has 2 disks. My PC showing all drives from both disk.
Then i open disk 1(slave) in hex viewer and fill 0 at t sector 0
where partition table exists and save it. After that i found my PC is
still showing drives from both disk.
I could not check slave disk is dynamic disk or not but i can boot my
PC from from this slave disk also. I'll check it and inform.
"Jonathan de Boyne Pollard"

Post by Ashish

Post by Ashish
There are no other partition tables on the disk. How are you
determining that the MBR and Partition Table is missing or
corrupt? Which tools are you using to get to this conclusion?

I'm using a hex viewer to see the contents of a disk. Search the
first 4 bytes of sector 0 in entire disk, you will find it.

That's not the way to determine that the partition table is missing
or corrupt. That's nothing to do with it. Please answer the
question that you were actually asked, and follow the standard
litany
<http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/problem-report-standard-litany.html>.
/How are you determining that the Partition Table is missing or
corrupt?/

[ashish]

thanks for your interest and reply
but its really strange that your window explorer not showing any drive after
u delete partition table of disk1
i'm using paid version of winhex.
what i wrote before to proove it either i can create a gtm link and show u
online or i'll try to create a video clip and attach it. i alse fill 0 frpm
0x1be to 0x1fe.
secinspect & pedit tools also dont show any drive on disk1.

I cannot replicate your findings. I tried with my Windows 2000 SP4 box and
Acronis Disk Editor as well as Diskprobe. I create 4 primary partitions on
my test disk then I zero out the partition table (bytes 446 to 509
(1BE-1FD)) and the disk and its drives do not show up in Windows Explorer,
(no reboot required). I start the Disk Management tool and upon opening
the Write Signature and Upgrade Disk wizard automatically starts, (even
though I left the signature at AA55h intact), and the whole disk is shown
as unallocated. After zeroing out the partition table Acronis Disk
Director also reports the whole disk as unallocated.
I don't know what you are doing but I can only surmise that you are
zeroing the wrong bytes or that you are not saving the changes, or that
your disk editor doesn't commit the changes to the disk.
John

Post by Ashish
Yes i'm using 2 disk. Disk 0 and disk1. And i delete partition table for
disk 1 using a hex viewer Winhex.
After deleting it secinspect program did no show any drive for disk 1.
I did not try after reboot but i think my computer (window explorer) will
not show any drive from disk1. i'll confirm it. But the question is where
OS keeps all drives info. When i delete partition table for disk 1 it
should not show any drive from disk 1 but it's still showing.

Post by John John - MVP
And this persists after you reboot the machine?
You say: "I open disk2 in hex viewer and fill 0 at sector 0 where
partition table exists and save it"
From the information that you gave us you have two hard disks, this
means that you have Disk 0 and Disk 1, disk ordinals start at number 0.
If you are opening Disk 2 with the hex viewer I don't know where this
third disk is coming from, you should be editing Disk 1, but I don't
know which hex viewer you are using so I don't know how it presents the
disks to you.
Use MBRWiz to wipe sector 0 and see if things change.
MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1
John

Post by Ashish
Thanks for providing all info. Let me explain my problem now
Platform windows (32 bits), OS-win2000
disk1-
type basic (partition table start at sector 0) confirmed
number of drives = 3 (c,d,e)
disk2-
type basic (partition table start at sector 0) confirmed
number of drives = 2 (f,g)
After system boot successfully it shows total 5 drives (c,d,e,f,g).
I open disk2 in hex viewer and fill 0 at sector 0 where partition table
exists and save it.
Run secinspect. exe with -n option, it does not show any drive for
disk2. Also try with PTEDIT32, it's also not showing any drive on disk
2. And before deleting partition table for disk2 both tools were
showing drives on disk2.
While system is still showing all 5 drives and i can open any drive
through window explorer.
So it means either there is any other copy of MBR stored on disk (which
i asked before) or system keeps all drive info somewhere (i dont know
where).
please suggest.

Post by John John - MVP

Post by Ashish
Platform- Windows 32 bits
OS- windows 2000

With Windows 2000 we can pretty well rule out GPT disk.

Post by Ashish
DISKPART is not recognized command on this OS.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927229
Windows 2000 Resource Kit Tools for administrative tasks

Post by Ashish
When i try to get disk type through disk management, it did not tell
me about disk type.

Look at the big buttons at the very left (Disk 0, Disk 1...) the disk
type is labeled below the disk number. Also, the coloured top border
for a dynamic disk/simple volume is olive green. To see what the
colors represent click View, and then click Settings and you will see
the different types of of partition/volumes and their default colours
on the Appearance tab.

Post by Ashish
What's the difference between Dyn and Gpt disk from the point of
partition table view?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/302873
Frequently asked questions about the GUID Partitioning Table disk
architecture

Post by Ashish
For dyn disk, does partition table not store in sector 0?

No, the disk may have a retained MBR but volume information is stored
in the LDM database at the end of each dynamic disk.
[quote]
"Dynamic disks use a private region of the disk to maintain a Logical
Disk Manager (LDM) database, which contains volume types, offsets,
memberships, and drive letters of each volume. The LDM database is
also replicated, so each dynamic disk knows about every other dynamic
disk configuration. This feature makes dynamic disks more reliable and
recoverable than basic disks."
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/329707
Best practices for using dynamic disks on Windows 2000-based computers
http://windows-internal.net/MS.Press-Microsoft.Windows.Int/0735619174/ch10lev1sec3.html
Volume Management

Post by Ashish
Well thanks for the tools, i can check mbr.

Keep us informed of your progress.
John

Post by Ashish

Post by John John - MVP
You haven't told us which Windows version you are using.
Try another tool to wipe the MBR then see if you can still boot with
this disk or if Windows can still see the partitions.
http://www.mbrwizard.com/index.php
MBRWizard! - The MBR Management Utility
MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1
John

Post by Ashish
I'm using a hex viewer winhex
I said that there are some other copies of partition table in disk
on following basis
In sector 0, partition table keeps the direct information of first
drive say C (and direct information of next drive or extended
part). For each drive it keeps total sectors used by drive and
number of sector from current position after which drive data is
start. I got these number of sectors (4 bytes) and search these in
entire disk. I found these in some other sector which is copy of
sector 0. Thats why i wrote how to find MBR copy.
I took one hard disk (IDE) and attached it with my PC as slave
disk. Now my PC has 2 disks. My PC showing all drives from both
disk.
Then i open disk 1(slave) in hex viewer and fill 0 at t sector 0
where partition table exists and save it. After that i found my PC
is still showing drives from both disk.
I could not check slave disk is dynamic disk or not but i can boot
my PC from from this slave disk also. I'll check it and inform.
"Jonathan de Boyne Pollard"

Post by Ashish

Post by Ashish
There are no other partition tables on the disk. How are you
determining that the MBR and Partition Table is missing or
corrupt? Which tools are you using to get to this conclusion?

I'm using a hex viewer to see the contents of a disk. Search the
first 4 bytes of sector 0 in entire disk, you will find it.

That's not the way to determine that the partition table is missing
or corrupt. That's nothing to do with it. Please answer the
question that you were actually asked, and follow the standard
litany
<http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/problem-report-standard-litany.html>.
/How are you determining that the Partition Table is missing or
corrupt?/

[John John - MVP]

Post by ashish
thanks for your interest and reply
but its really strange that your window explorer not showing any drive after
u delete partition table of disk1

My Windows Explorer shows the drives (partitions) on the disk where the
partition table wasn't touched, it doesn't show the disk/partitions on
the disk where the partition table was zeroed out.

I think that the strange thing would be that your Windows Explorer keeps
on showing drives (partitions) on the disk after you zero out the
partition table. Please try wiping the MBR with MBRWiz and see what
happens: http://www.mbrwizard.com/

John

Post by ashish
i'm using paid version of winhex.
what i wrote before to proove it either i can create a gtm link and show u
online or i'll try to create a video clip and attach it. i alse fill 0 frpm
0x1be to 0x1fe.
secinspect & pedit tools also dont show any drive on disk1.

I cannot replicate your findings. I tried with my Windows 2000 SP4 box and
Acronis Disk Editor as well as Diskprobe. I create 4 primary partitions on
my test disk then I zero out the partition table (bytes 446 to 509
(1BE-1FD)) and the disk and its drives do not show up in Windows Explorer,
(no reboot required). I start the Disk Management tool and upon opening
the Write Signature and Upgrade Disk wizard automatically starts, (even
though I left the signature at AA55h intact), and the whole disk is shown
as unallocated. After zeroing out the partition table Acronis Disk
Director also reports the whole disk as unallocated.
I don't know what you are doing but I can only surmise that you are
zeroing the wrong bytes or that you are not saving the changes, or that
your disk editor doesn't commit the changes to the disk.
John

Post by Ashish
Yes i'm using 2 disk. Disk 0 and disk1. And i delete partition table for
disk 1 using a hex viewer Winhex.
After deleting it secinspect program did no show any drive for disk 1.
I did not try after reboot but i think my computer (window explorer) will
not show any drive from disk1. i'll confirm it. But the question is where
OS keeps all drives info. When i delete partition table for disk 1 it
should not show any drive from disk 1 but it's still showing.

Post by John John - MVP
And this persists after you reboot the machine?
You say: "I open disk2 in hex viewer and fill 0 at sector 0 where
partition table exists and save it"
From the information that you gave us you have two hard disks, this
means that you have Disk 0 and Disk 1, disk ordinals start at number 0.
If you are opening Disk 2 with the hex viewer I don't know where this
third disk is coming from, you should be editing Disk 1, but I don't
know which hex viewer you are using so I don't know how it presents the
disks to you.
Use MBRWiz to wipe sector 0 and see if things change.
MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1
John

Post by Ashish
Thanks for providing all info. Let me explain my problem now
Platform windows (32 bits), OS-win2000
disk1-
type basic (partition table start at sector 0) confirmed
number of drives = 3 (c,d,e)
disk2-
type basic (partition table start at sector 0) confirmed
number of drives = 2 (f,g)
After system boot successfully it shows total 5 drives (c,d,e,f,g).
I open disk2 in hex viewer and fill 0 at sector 0 where partition table
exists and save it.
Run secinspect. exe with -n option, it does not show any drive for
disk2. Also try with PTEDIT32, it's also not showing any drive on disk
2. And before deleting partition table for disk2 both tools were
showing drives on disk2.
While system is still showing all 5 drives and i can open any drive
through window explorer.
So it means either there is any other copy of MBR stored on disk (which
i asked before) or system keeps all drive info somewhere (i dont know
where).
please suggest.

Post by John John - MVP

Post by Ashish
Platform- Windows 32 bits
OS- windows 2000

With Windows 2000 we can pretty well rule out GPT disk.

Post by Ashish
DISKPART is not recognized command on this OS.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927229
Windows 2000 Resource Kit Tools for administrative tasks

Post by Ashish
When i try to get disk type through disk management, it did not tell
me about disk type.

Look at the big buttons at the very left (Disk 0, Disk 1...) the disk
type is labeled below the disk number. Also, the coloured top border
for a dynamic disk/simple volume is olive green. To see what the
colors represent click View, and then click Settings and you will see
the different types of of partition/volumes and their default colours
on the Appearance tab.

Post by Ashish
What's the difference between Dyn and Gpt disk from the point of
partition table view?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/302873
Frequently asked questions about the GUID Partitioning Table disk
architecture

Post by Ashish
For dyn disk, does partition table not store in sector 0?

No, the disk may have a retained MBR but volume information is stored
in the LDM database at the end of each dynamic disk.
[quote]
"Dynamic disks use a private region of the disk to maintain a Logical
Disk Manager (LDM) database, which contains volume types, offsets,
memberships, and drive letters of each volume. The LDM database is
also replicated, so each dynamic disk knows about every other dynamic
disk configuration. This feature makes dynamic disks more reliable and
recoverable than basic disks."
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/329707
Best practices for using dynamic disks on Windows 2000-based computers
http://windows-internal.net/MS.Press-Microsoft.Windows.Int/0735619174/ch10lev1sec3.html
Volume Management

Post by Ashish
Well thanks for the tools, i can check mbr.

Keep us informed of your progress.
John

Post by Ashish

Post by John John - MVP
You haven't told us which Windows version you are using.
Try another tool to wipe the MBR then see if you can still boot with
this disk or if Windows can still see the partitions.
http://www.mbrwizard.com/index.php
MBRWizard! - The MBR Management Utility
MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1
John

Post by Ashish
I'm using a hex viewer winhex
I said that there are some other copies of partition table in disk
on following basis
In sector 0, partition table keeps the direct information of first
drive say C (and direct information of next drive or extended
part). For each drive it keeps total sectors used by drive and
number of sector from current position after which drive data is
start. I got these number of sectors (4 bytes) and search these in
entire disk. I found these in some other sector which is copy of
sector 0. Thats why i wrote how to find MBR copy.
I took one hard disk (IDE) and attached it with my PC as slave
disk. Now my PC has 2 disks. My PC showing all drives from both
disk.
Then i open disk 1(slave) in hex viewer and fill 0 at t sector 0
where partition table exists and save it. After that i found my PC
is still showing drives from both disk.
I could not check slave disk is dynamic disk or not but i can boot
my PC from from this slave disk also. I'll check it and inform.
"Jonathan de Boyne Pollard"

Post by Ashish

Post by Ashish
There are no other partition tables on the disk. How are you
determining that the MBR and Partition Table is missing or
corrupt? Which tools are you using to get to this conclusion?

I'm using a hex viewer to see the contents of a disk. Search the
first 4 bytes of sector 0 in entire disk, you will find it.

That's not the way to determine that the partition table is missing
or corrupt. That's nothing to do with it. Please answer the
question that you were actually asked, and follow the standard
litany
<http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/problem-report-standard-litany.html>.
/How are you determining that the Partition Table is missing or
corrupt?/

[ashish]

Since u did not find any drive on disk 1 it means i'm doing something wrong
somewhere.
just now i confirm it again and found one diference between our findings.

i start computer management and select disk management, it showing 5 drives
(3 from disk 0 and 2 from disk1).
Then i Open winhex and fill 0 at sector 0 from 0x1be to 0x1fe save it and
close winhex. Open mycomputer, it's still showing 5 drives. Then i check
with secinspect and pedit, they are not showing any drive on disk1.
Change selection/refresh in computer management. switch to disk
defragmentation and switch back to disk management, it's still showing 5
drives.
then i close computer management and start it again. now i can not see any
drive on disk 1.
i'm sorry i was not aware with this. i was not aware that i need to start
computer management again.
thanks for ur time and response to clear the doubts.

I cannot replicate your findings. I tried with my Windows 2000 SP4 box and
Acronis Disk Editor as well as Diskprobe. I create 4 primary partitions on
my test disk then I zero out the partition table (bytes 446 to 509
(1BE-1FD)) and the disk and its drives do not show up in Windows Explorer,
(no reboot required). I start the Disk Management tool and upon opening
the Write Signature and Upgrade Disk wizard automatically starts, (even
though I left the signature at AA55h intact), and the whole disk is shown
as unallocated. After zeroing out the partition table Acronis Disk
Director also reports the whole disk as unallocated.
I don't know what you are doing but I can only surmise that you are
zeroing the wrong bytes or that you are not saving the changes, or that
your disk editor doesn't commit the changes to the disk.
John

Post by Ashish
Yes i'm using 2 disk. Disk 0 and disk1. And i delete partition table for
disk 1 using a hex viewer Winhex.
After deleting it secinspect program did no show any drive for disk 1.
I did not try after reboot but i think my computer (window explorer) will
not show any drive from disk1. i'll confirm it. But the question is where
OS keeps all drives info. When i delete partition table for disk 1 it
should not show any drive from disk 1 but it's still showing.

Post by John John - MVP
And this persists after you reboot the machine?
You say: "I open disk2 in hex viewer and fill 0 at sector 0 where
partition table exists and save it"
From the information that you gave us you have two hard disks, this
means that you have Disk 0 and Disk 1, disk ordinals start at number 0.
If you are opening Disk 2 with the hex viewer I don't know where this
third disk is coming from, you should be editing Disk 1, but I don't
know which hex viewer you are using so I don't know how it presents the
disks to you.
Use MBRWiz to wipe sector 0 and see if things change.
MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1
John

Post by Ashish
Thanks for providing all info. Let me explain my problem now
Platform windows (32 bits), OS-win2000
disk1-
type basic (partition table start at sector 0) confirmed
number of drives = 3 (c,d,e)
disk2-
type basic (partition table start at sector 0) confirmed
number of drives = 2 (f,g)
After system boot successfully it shows total 5 drives (c,d,e,f,g).
I open disk2 in hex viewer and fill 0 at sector 0 where partition table
exists and save it.
Run secinspect. exe with -n option, it does not show any drive for
disk2. Also try with PTEDIT32, it's also not showing any drive on disk
2. And before deleting partition table for disk2 both tools were
showing drives on disk2.
While system is still showing all 5 drives and i can open any drive
through window explorer.
So it means either there is any other copy of MBR stored on disk (which
i asked before) or system keeps all drive info somewhere (i dont know
where).
please suggest.

Post by John John - MVP

Post by Ashish
Platform- Windows 32 bits
OS- windows 2000

With Windows 2000 we can pretty well rule out GPT disk.

Post by Ashish
DISKPART is not recognized command on this OS.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927229
Windows 2000 Resource Kit Tools for administrative tasks

Post by Ashish
When i try to get disk type through disk management, it did not tell
me about disk type.

Look at the big buttons at the very left (Disk 0, Disk 1...) the disk
type is labeled below the disk number. Also, the coloured top border
for a dynamic disk/simple volume is olive green. To see what the
colors represent click View, and then click Settings and you will see
the different types of of partition/volumes and their default colours
on the Appearance tab.

Post by Ashish
What's the difference between Dyn and Gpt disk from the point of
partition table view?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/302873
Frequently asked questions about the GUID Partitioning Table disk
architecture

Post by Ashish
For dyn disk, does partition table not store in sector 0?

No, the disk may have a retained MBR but volume information is stored
in the LDM database at the end of each dynamic disk.
[quote]
"Dynamic disks use a private region of the disk to maintain a Logical
Disk Manager (LDM) database, which contains volume types, offsets,
memberships, and drive letters of each volume. The LDM database is
also replicated, so each dynamic disk knows about every other dynamic
disk configuration. This feature makes dynamic disks more reliable and
recoverable than basic disks."
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/329707
Best practices for using dynamic disks on Windows 2000-based computers
http://windows-internal.net/MS.Press-Microsoft.Windows.Int/0735619174/ch10lev1sec3.html
Volume Management

Post by Ashish
Well thanks for the tools, i can check mbr.

Keep us informed of your progress.
John

Post by Ashish

Post by John John - MVP
You haven't told us which Windows version you are using.
Try another tool to wipe the MBR then see if you can still boot with
this disk or if Windows can still see the partitions.
http://www.mbrwizard.com/index.php
MBRWizard! - The MBR Management Utility
MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1
John

Post by Ashish
I'm using a hex viewer winhex
I said that there are some other copies of partition table in disk
on following basis
In sector 0, partition table keeps the direct information of first
drive say C (and direct information of next drive or extended
part). For each drive it keeps total sectors used by drive and
number of sector from current position after which drive data is
start. I got these number of sectors (4 bytes) and search these in
entire disk. I found these in some other sector which is copy of
sector 0. Thats why i wrote how to find MBR copy.
I took one hard disk (IDE) and attached it with my PC as slave
disk. Now my PC has 2 disks. My PC showing all drives from both
disk.
Then i open disk 1(slave) in hex viewer and fill 0 at t sector 0
where partition table exists and save it. After that i found my PC
is still showing drives from both disk.
I could not check slave disk is dynamic disk or not but i can boot
my PC from from this slave disk also. I'll check it and inform.
"Jonathan de Boyne Pollard"

Post by Ashish

Post by Ashish
There are no other partition tables on the disk. How are you
determining that the MBR and Partition Table is missing or
corrupt? Which tools are you using to get to this conclusion?

I'm using a hex viewer to see the contents of a disk. Search the
first 4 bytes of sector 0 in entire disk, you will find it.

That's not the way to determine that the partition table is missing
or corrupt. That's nothing to do with it. Please answer the
question that you were actually asked, and follow the standard
litany
<http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/problem-report-standard-litany.html>.
/How are you determining that the Partition Table is missing or
corrupt?/

[John John - MVP]

In my test when I exited the disk editor the changes were flushed to the
disk immediately and Windows Explorer as well as diskmgmt.msc did not
show the disk and drives when first opened, there was no need to open
the tools twice for the changes to apply. In any case, we can pretty
well put the case to rest, there is no other copy of the MBR or
partition table on basic MBR disks.

John

Post by ashish
Since u did not find any drive on disk 1 it means i'm doing something wrong
somewhere.
just now i confirm it again and found one diference between our findings.
i start computer management and select disk management, it showing 5 drives
(3 from disk 0 and 2 from disk1).
Then i Open winhex and fill 0 at sector 0 from 0x1be to 0x1fe save it and
close winhex. Open mycomputer, it's still showing 5 drives. Then i check
with secinspect and pedit, they are not showing any drive on disk1.
Change selection/refresh in computer management. switch to disk
defragmentation and switch back to disk management, it's still showing 5
drives.
then i close computer management and start it again. now i can not see any
drive on disk 1.
i'm sorry i was not aware with this. i was not aware that i need to start
computer management again.
thanks for ur time and response to clear the doubts.

I cannot replicate your findings. I tried with my Windows 2000 SP4 box and
Acronis Disk Editor as well as Diskprobe. I create 4 primary partitions on
my test disk then I zero out the partition table (bytes 446 to 509
(1BE-1FD)) and the disk and its drives do not show up in Windows Explorer,
(no reboot required). I start the Disk Management tool and upon opening
the Write Signature and Upgrade Disk wizard automatically starts, (even
though I left the signature at AA55h intact), and the whole disk is shown
as unallocated. After zeroing out the partition table Acronis Disk
Director also reports the whole disk as unallocated.
I don't know what you are doing but I can only surmise that you are
zeroing the wrong bytes or that you are not saving the changes, or that
your disk editor doesn't commit the changes to the disk.
John

Post by Ashish
Yes i'm using 2 disk. Disk 0 and disk1. And i delete partition table for
disk 1 using a hex viewer Winhex.
After deleting it secinspect program did no show any drive for disk 1.
I did not try after reboot but i think my computer (window explorer) will
not show any drive from disk1. i'll confirm it. But the question is where
OS keeps all drives info. When i delete partition table for disk 1 it
should not show any drive from disk 1 but it's still showing.

Post by John John - MVP
And this persists after you reboot the machine?
You say: "I open disk2 in hex viewer and fill 0 at sector 0 where
partition table exists and save it"
From the information that you gave us you have two hard disks, this
means that you have Disk 0 and Disk 1, disk ordinals start at number 0.
If you are opening Disk 2 with the hex viewer I don't know where this
third disk is coming from, you should be editing Disk 1, but I don't
know which hex viewer you are using so I don't know how it presents the
disks to you.
Use MBRWiz to wipe sector 0 and see if things change.
MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1
John

Post by Ashish
Thanks for providing all info. Let me explain my problem now
Platform windows (32 bits), OS-win2000
disk1-
type basic (partition table start at sector 0) confirmed
number of drives = 3 (c,d,e)
disk2-
type basic (partition table start at sector 0) confirmed
number of drives = 2 (f,g)
After system boot successfully it shows total 5 drives (c,d,e,f,g).
I open disk2 in hex viewer and fill 0 at sector 0 where partition table
exists and save it.
Run secinspect. exe with -n option, it does not show any drive for
disk2. Also try with PTEDIT32, it's also not showing any drive on disk
2. And before deleting partition table for disk2 both tools were
showing drives on disk2.
While system is still showing all 5 drives and i can open any drive
through window explorer.
So it means either there is any other copy of MBR stored on disk (which
i asked before) or system keeps all drive info somewhere (i dont know
where).
please suggest.

Post by John John - MVP

Post by Ashish
Platform- Windows 32 bits
OS- windows 2000

With Windows 2000 we can pretty well rule out GPT disk.

Post by Ashish
DISKPART is not recognized command on this OS.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927229
Windows 2000 Resource Kit Tools for administrative tasks

Post by Ashish
When i try to get disk type through disk management, it did not tell
me about disk type.

Look at the big buttons at the very left (Disk 0, Disk 1...) the disk
type is labeled below the disk number. Also, the coloured top border
for a dynamic disk/simple volume is olive green. To see what the
colors represent click View, and then click Settings and you will see
the different types of of partition/volumes and their default colours
on the Appearance tab.

Post by Ashish
What's the difference between Dyn and Gpt disk from the point of
partition table view?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/302873
Frequently asked questions about the GUID Partitioning Table disk
architecture

Post by Ashish
For dyn disk, does partition table not store in sector 0?

No, the disk may have a retained MBR but volume information is stored
in the LDM database at the end of each dynamic disk.
[quote]
"Dynamic disks use a private region of the disk to maintain a Logical
Disk Manager (LDM) database, which contains volume types, offsets,
memberships, and drive letters of each volume. The LDM database is
also replicated, so each dynamic disk knows about every other dynamic
disk configuration. This feature makes dynamic disks more reliable and
recoverable than basic disks."
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/329707
Best practices for using dynamic disks on Windows 2000-based computers
http://windows-internal.net/MS.Press-Microsoft.Windows.Int/0735619174/ch10lev1sec3.html
Volume Management

Post by Ashish
Well thanks for the tools, i can check mbr.

Keep us informed of your progress.
John

Post by Ashish

Post by John John - MVP
You haven't told us which Windows version you are using.
Try another tool to wipe the MBR then see if you can still boot with
this disk or if Windows can still see the partitions.
http://www.mbrwizard.com/index.php
MBRWizard! - The MBR Management Utility
MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1
John

Post by Ashish
I'm using a hex viewer winhex
I said that there are some other copies of partition table in disk
on following basis
In sector 0, partition table keeps the direct information of first
drive say C (and direct information of next drive or extended
part). For each drive it keeps total sectors used by drive and
number of sector from current position after which drive data is
start. I got these number of sectors (4 bytes) and search these in
entire disk. I found these in some other sector which is copy of
sector 0. Thats why i wrote how to find MBR copy.
I took one hard disk (IDE) and attached it with my PC as slave
disk. Now my PC has 2 disks. My PC showing all drives from both
disk.
Then i open disk 1(slave) in hex viewer and fill 0 at t sector 0
where partition table exists and save it. After that i found my PC
is still showing drives from both disk.
I could not check slave disk is dynamic disk or not but i can boot
my PC from from this slave disk also. I'll check it and inform.
"Jonathan de Boyne Pollard"

Post by Ashish

Post by Ashish
There are no other partition tables on the disk. How are you
determining that the MBR and Partition Table is missing or
corrupt? Which tools are you using to get to this conclusion?

I'm using a hex viewer to see the contents of a disk. Search the
first 4 bytes of sector 0 in entire disk, you will find it.

That's not the way to determine that the partition table is missing
or corrupt. That's nothing to do with it. Please answer the
question that you were actually asked, and follow the standard
litany
<http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/problem-report-standard-litany.html>.
/How are you determining that the Partition Table is missing or
corrupt?/

[Ashish]

hi,

thanks
in my system after deleting partition table from disk1 i can open all drives
of disk1 in my computer, getlogicaldrive function returns value for all
drives if i dont restart computer management. Secinspect & pedit dont show
any drive for disk1 . It means system keeps cache about all drives.
Thanks for your help for solving this. I was thinking about multiple
partition table because i did not try to restart computer management.
But now everything is clear.

Post by John John - MVP
In my test when I exited the disk editor the changes were flushed to the
disk immediately and Windows Explorer as well as diskmgmt.msc did not show
the disk and drives when first opened, there was no need to open the tools
twice for the changes to apply. In any case, we can pretty well put the
case to rest, there is no other copy of the MBR or partition table on
basic MBR disks.
John

Post by ashish
Since u did not find any drive on disk 1 it means i'm doing something
wrong somewhere.
just now i confirm it again and found one diference between our findings.
i start computer management and select disk management, it showing 5
drives (3 from disk 0 and 2 from disk1).
Then i Open winhex and fill 0 at sector 0 from 0x1be to 0x1fe save it and
close winhex. Open mycomputer, it's still showing 5 drives. Then i check
with secinspect and pedit, they are not showing any drive on disk1.
Change selection/refresh in computer management. switch to disk
defragmentation and switch back to disk management, it's still showing 5
drives.
then i close computer management and start it again. now i can not see
any drive on disk 1.
i'm sorry i was not aware with this. i was not aware that i need to start
computer management again.
thanks for ur time and response to clear the doubts.

Post by John John - MVP
I cannot replicate your findings. I tried with my Windows 2000 SP4 box
and Acronis Disk Editor as well as Diskprobe. I create 4 primary
partitions on my test disk then I zero out the partition table (bytes
446 to 509 (1BE-1FD)) and the disk and its drives do not show up in
Windows Explorer, (no reboot required). I start the Disk Management
tool and upon opening the Write Signature and Upgrade Disk wizard
automatically starts, (even though I left the signature at AA55h
intact), and the whole disk is shown as unallocated. After zeroing out
the partition table Acronis Disk Director also reports the whole disk as
unallocated.
I don't know what you are doing but I can only surmise that you are
zeroing the wrong bytes or that you are not saving the changes, or that
your disk editor doesn't commit the changes to the disk.
John

Post by Ashish
Yes i'm using 2 disk. Disk 0 and disk1. And i delete partition table
for disk 1 using a hex viewer Winhex.
After deleting it secinspect program did no show any drive for disk 1.
I did not try after reboot but i think my computer (window explorer)
will not show any drive from disk1. i'll confirm it. But the question
is where OS keeps all drives info. When i delete partition table for
disk 1 it should not show any drive from disk 1 but it's still showing.

Post by John John - MVP
And this persists after you reboot the machine?
You say: "I open disk2 in hex viewer and fill 0 at sector 0 where
partition table exists and save it"
From the information that you gave us you have two hard disks, this
means that you have Disk 0 and Disk 1, disk ordinals start at number
0. If you are opening Disk 2 with the hex viewer I don't know where
this third disk is coming from, you should be editing Disk 1, but I
don't know which hex viewer you are using so I don't know how it
presents the disks to you.
Use MBRWiz to wipe sector 0 and see if things change.
MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1
John

Post by Ashish
Thanks for providing all info. Let me explain my problem now
Platform windows (32 bits), OS-win2000
disk1-
type basic (partition table start at sector 0) confirmed
number of drives = 3 (c,d,e)
disk2-
type basic (partition table start at sector 0) confirmed
number of drives = 2 (f,g)
After system boot successfully it shows total 5 drives (c,d,e,f,g).
I open disk2 in hex viewer and fill 0 at sector 0 where partition
table exists and save it.
Run secinspect. exe with -n option, it does not show any drive for
disk2. Also try with PTEDIT32, it's also not showing any drive on
disk 2. And before deleting partition table for disk2 both tools were
showing drives on disk2.
While system is still showing all 5 drives and i can open any drive
through window explorer.
So it means either there is any other copy of MBR stored on disk
(which i asked before) or system keeps all drive info somewhere (i
dont know where).
please suggest.

Post by John John - MVP

Post by Ashish
Platform- Windows 32 bits
OS- windows 2000

With Windows 2000 we can pretty well rule out GPT disk.

Post by Ashish
DISKPART is not recognized command on this OS.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927229
Windows 2000 Resource Kit Tools for administrative tasks

Post by Ashish
When i try to get disk type through disk management, it did not
tell me about disk type.

Look at the big buttons at the very left (Disk 0, Disk 1...) the
disk type is labeled below the disk number. Also, the coloured top
border for a dynamic disk/simple volume is olive green. To see what
the colors represent click View, and then click Settings and you
will see the different types of of partition/volumes and their
default colours on the Appearance tab.

Post by Ashish
What's the difference between Dyn and Gpt disk from the point of
partition table view?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/302873
Frequently asked questions about the GUID Partitioning Table disk
architecture

Post by Ashish
For dyn disk, does partition table not store in sector 0?

No, the disk may have a retained MBR but volume information is
stored in the LDM database at the end of each dynamic disk.
[quote]
"Dynamic disks use a private region of the disk to maintain a
Logical Disk Manager (LDM) database, which contains volume types,
offsets, memberships, and drive letters of each volume. The LDM
database is also replicated, so each dynamic disk knows about every
other dynamic disk configuration. This feature makes dynamic disks
more reliable and recoverable than basic disks."
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/329707
Best practices for using dynamic disks on Windows 2000-based computers
http://windows-internal.net/MS.Press-Microsoft.Windows.Int/0735619174/ch10lev1sec3.html
Volume Management

Post by Ashish
Well thanks for the tools, i can check mbr.

Keep us informed of your progress.
John

Post by Ashish

Post by John John - MVP
You haven't told us which Windows version you are using.
Try another tool to wipe the MBR then see if you can still boot
with this disk or if Windows can still see the partitions.
http://www.mbrwizard.com/index.php
MBRWizard! - The MBR Management Utility
MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1
John

Post by Ashish
I'm using a hex viewer winhex
I said that there are some other copies of partition table in
disk on following basis
In sector 0, partition table keeps the direct information of
first drive say C (and direct information of next drive or
extended part). For each drive it keeps total sectors used by
drive and number of sector from current position after which
drive data is start. I got these number of sectors (4 bytes) and
search these in entire disk. I found these in some other sector
which is copy of sector 0. Thats why i wrote how to find MBR
copy.
I took one hard disk (IDE) and attached it with my PC as slave
disk. Now my PC has 2 disks. My PC showing all drives from both
disk.
Then i open disk 1(slave) in hex viewer and fill 0 at t sector 0
where partition table exists and save it. After that i found my
PC is still showing drives from both disk.
I could not check slave disk is dynamic disk or not but i can
boot my PC from from this slave disk also. I'll check it and
inform.
"Jonathan de Boyne Pollard"

Post by Ashish

Post by Ashish
There are no other partition tables on the disk. How are you
determining that the MBR and Partition Table is missing or
corrupt? Which tools are you using to get to this conclusion?

I'm using a hex viewer to see the contents of a disk. Search the
first 4 bytes of sector 0 in entire disk, you will find it.

That's not the way to determine that the partition table is missing
or corrupt. That's nothing to do with it. Please answer the
question that you were actually asked, and follow the standard
litany
<http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/problem-report-standard-litany.html>.
/How are you determining that the Partition Table is missing or
corrupt?/

[John John - MVP]

You're welcome.

John

Post by Ashish
hi,
thanks
in my system after deleting partition table from disk1 i can open all drives
of disk1 in my computer, getlogicaldrive function returns value for all
drives if i dont restart computer management. Secinspect & pedit dont show
any drive for disk1 . It means system keeps cache about all drives.
Thanks for your help for solving this. I was thinking about multiple
partition table because i did not try to restart computer management.
But now everything is clear.

Post by John John - MVP
In my test when I exited the disk editor the changes were flushed to the
disk immediately and Windows Explorer as well as diskmgmt.msc did not show
the disk and drives when first opened, there was no need to open the tools
twice for the changes to apply. In any case, we can pretty well put the
case to rest, there is no other copy of the MBR or partition table on
basic MBR disks.
John

Post by ashish
Since u did not find any drive on disk 1 it means i'm doing something
wrong somewhere.
just now i confirm it again and found one diference between our findings.
i start computer management and select disk management, it showing 5
drives (3 from disk 0 and 2 from disk1).
Then i Open winhex and fill 0 at sector 0 from 0x1be to 0x1fe save it and
close winhex. Open mycomputer, it's still showing 5 drives. Then i check
with secinspect and pedit, they are not showing any drive on disk1.
Change selection/refresh in computer management. switch to disk
defragmentation and switch back to disk management, it's still showing 5
drives.
then i close computer management and start it again. now i can not see
any drive on disk 1.
i'm sorry i was not aware with this. i was not aware that i need to start
computer management again.
thanks for ur time and response to clear the doubts.

Post by John John - MVP
I cannot replicate your findings. I tried with my Windows 2000 SP4 box
and Acronis Disk Editor as well as Diskprobe. I create 4 primary
partitions on my test disk then I zero out the partition table (bytes
446 to 509 (1BE-1FD)) and the disk and its drives do not show up in
Windows Explorer, (no reboot required). I start the Disk Management
tool and upon opening the Write Signature and Upgrade Disk wizard
automatically starts, (even though I left the signature at AA55h
intact), and the whole disk is shown as unallocated. After zeroing out
the partition table Acronis Disk Director also reports the whole disk as
unallocated.
I don't know what you are doing but I can only surmise that you are
zeroing the wrong bytes or that you are not saving the changes, or that
your disk editor doesn't commit the changes to the disk.
John

Post by Ashish
Yes i'm using 2 disk. Disk 0 and disk1. And i delete partition table
for disk 1 using a hex viewer Winhex.
After deleting it secinspect program did no show any drive for disk 1.
I did not try after reboot but i think my computer (window explorer)
will not show any drive from disk1. i'll confirm it. But the question
is where OS keeps all drives info. When i delete partition table for
disk 1 it should not show any drive from disk 1 but it's still showing.

Post by John John - MVP
And this persists after you reboot the machine?
You say: "I open disk2 in hex viewer and fill 0 at sector 0 where
partition table exists and save it"
From the information that you gave us you have two hard disks, this
means that you have Disk 0 and Disk 1, disk ordinals start at number
0. If you are opening Disk 2 with the hex viewer I don't know where
this third disk is coming from, you should be editing Disk 1, but I
don't know which hex viewer you are using so I don't know how it
presents the disks to you.
Use MBRWiz to wipe sector 0 and see if things change.
MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1
John

Post by Ashish
Thanks for providing all info. Let me explain my problem now
Platform windows (32 bits), OS-win2000
disk1-
type basic (partition table start at sector 0) confirmed
number of drives = 3 (c,d,e)
disk2-
type basic (partition table start at sector 0) confirmed
number of drives = 2 (f,g)
After system boot successfully it shows total 5 drives (c,d,e,f,g).
I open disk2 in hex viewer and fill 0 at sector 0 where partition
table exists and save it.
Run secinspect. exe with -n option, it does not show any drive for
disk2. Also try with PTEDIT32, it's also not showing any drive on
disk 2. And before deleting partition table for disk2 both tools were
showing drives on disk2.
While system is still showing all 5 drives and i can open any drive
through window explorer.
So it means either there is any other copy of MBR stored on disk
(which i asked before) or system keeps all drive info somewhere (i
dont know where).
please suggest.

Post by John John - MVP

Post by Ashish
Platform- Windows 32 bits
OS- windows 2000

With Windows 2000 we can pretty well rule out GPT disk.

Post by Ashish
DISKPART is not recognized command on this OS.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927229
Windows 2000 Resource Kit Tools for administrative tasks

Post by Ashish
When i try to get disk type through disk management, it did not
tell me about disk type.

Look at the big buttons at the very left (Disk 0, Disk 1...) the
disk type is labeled below the disk number. Also, the coloured top
border for a dynamic disk/simple volume is olive green. To see what
the colors represent click View, and then click Settings and you
will see the different types of of partition/volumes and their
default colours on the Appearance tab.

Post by Ashish
What's the difference between Dyn and Gpt disk from the point of
partition table view?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/302873
Frequently asked questions about the GUID Partitioning Table disk
architecture

Post by Ashish
For dyn disk, does partition table not store in sector 0?

No, the disk may have a retained MBR but volume information is
stored in the LDM database at the end of each dynamic disk.
[quote]
"Dynamic disks use a private region of the disk to maintain a
Logical Disk Manager (LDM) database, which contains volume types,
offsets, memberships, and drive letters of each volume. The LDM
database is also replicated, so each dynamic disk knows about every
other dynamic disk configuration. This feature makes dynamic disks
more reliable and recoverable than basic disks."
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/329707
Best practices for using dynamic disks on Windows 2000-based computers
http://windows-internal.net/MS.Press-Microsoft.Windows.Int/0735619174/ch10lev1sec3.html
Volume Management

Post by Ashish
Well thanks for the tools, i can check mbr.

Keep us informed of your progress.
John

Post by Ashish

Post by John John - MVP
You haven't told us which Windows version you are using.
Try another tool to wipe the MBR then see if you can still boot
with this disk or if Windows can still see the partitions.
http://www.mbrwizard.com/index.php
MBRWizard! - The MBR Management Utility
MBRWiz /Wipe=MBR /Disk=1
John

Post by Ashish
I'm using a hex viewer winhex
I said that there are some other copies of partition table in
disk on following basis
In sector 0, partition table keeps the direct information of
first drive say C (and direct information of next drive or
extended part). For each drive it keeps total sectors used by
drive and number of sector from current position after which
drive data is start. I got these number of sectors (4 bytes) and
search these in entire disk. I found these in some other sector
which is copy of sector 0. Thats why i wrote how to find MBR
copy.
I took one hard disk (IDE) and attached it with my PC as slave
disk. Now my PC has 2 disks. My PC showing all drives from both
disk.
Then i open disk 1(slave) in hex viewer and fill 0 at t sector 0
where partition table exists and save it. After that i found my
PC is still showing drives from both disk.
I could not check slave disk is dynamic disk or not but i can
boot my PC from from this slave disk also. I'll check it and
inform.
"Jonathan de Boyne Pollard"

Post by Ashish

Post by Ashish
There are no other partition tables on the disk. How are you
determining that the MBR and Partition Table is missing or
corrupt? Which tools are you using to get to this conclusion?

I'm using a hex viewer to see the contents of a disk. Search the
first 4 bytes of sector 0 in entire disk, you will find it.

That's not the way to determine that the partition table is missing
or corrupt. That's nothing to do with it. Please answer the
question that you were actually asked, and follow the standard
litany
<http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/problem-report-standard-litany.html>.
/How are you determining that the Partition Table is missing or
corrupt?/

[Jonathan de Boyne Pollard]

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<blockquote cite="mid:***@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl" type="cite">
<p>I zero out the partition table (bytes 446 to 509 (1BE-1FD)) [...]</p>
<p>I start the Disk Management tool and upon opening the Write
Signature and Upgrade Disk wizard automatically starts, (even though I
left the signature at AA55h intact), [...]</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That's not the signature.&nbsp; The Write Signature wizard writes the <em>disc
signature</em>, which is 4 bytes at offset 0x01B8 and which you
probably zeroed out along with the partition table.&nbsp; Even if you
didn't, it's not unexpected that the Upgrade Disk wizard appeared when
presented with a disc that had zero partitions.&nbsp; It's documented as
doing just that.<br>
</p>
</body>
</html>

[John John - MVP]

Post by Jonathan de Boyne Pollard
I zero out the partition table (bytes 446 to 509 (1BE-1FD)) [...]
I start the Disk Management tool and upon opening the Write Signature
and Upgrade Disk wizard automatically starts, (even though I left the
signature at AA55h intact), [...]

That's not the signature. The Write Signature wizard writes the /disc
signature/, which is 4 bytes at offset 0x01B8 and which you probably
zeroed out along with the partition table. Even if you didn't, it's not
unexpected that the Upgrade Disk wizard appeared when presented with a
disc that had zero partitions. It's documented as doing just that.

Yes, you're correct, the NT disk signature is at offsets 1B8h -1BBh, I
improperly referred to the signature ID at AA55h. But I didn't zero the
four byte NT disk signature (bytes 440 to 443) I wrote from offsets 1BE
to 1FD.

John

[Jonathan de Boyne Pollard]

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<blockquote cite="mid:***@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl" type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>For dyn disk,&nbsp; does partition table not store in sector 0?
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>No, the disk may have a retained MBR but volume information is
stored in the LDM database at the end of each dynamic disk.
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>As the <em>very article that you pointed to</em> itself indicates,
the correct answer (for MBR partitioning) is "Yes.".&nbsp; The partition
table doesn't magically disappear for Dynamic discs.&nbsp; Dynamic discs use
structures built on top of the partitioning scheme itself, which still
remains (of necessity since otherwise the operating system wouldn't
know where those structures actually are).&nbsp; You are making an incorrect
distinction.&nbsp; I have pointed this out once already.<br>
</p>
</body>
</html>

[John John - MVP]

Post by John John - MVP

Post by Ashish
For dyn disk, does partition table not store in sector 0?

No, the disk may have a retained MBR but volume information is stored
in the LDM database at the end of each dynamic disk.

As the /very article that you pointed to/ itself indicates, the correct
answer (for MBR partitioning) is "Yes.". The partition table doesn't
magically disappear for Dynamic discs. Dynamic discs use structures
built on top of the partitioning scheme itself, which still remains (of
necessity since otherwise the operating system wouldn't know where those
structures actually are). You are making an incorrect distinction. I
have pointed this out once already.

Yes, I understand. The partition table remains present, but dynamic
disks have only a single partition table entry (type 42) that defines
the entire disk. Other than the partition type and the starting/ending
C/H/S values which encompasses the whole disk there is no volume
information in the partition table, the volume information is held in
the LDM database, not in the partition table.

John

[Jonathan de Boyne Pollard]

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<blockquote cite="mid:***@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl" type="cite">
<p wrap="">What's the difference between Dyn and Gpt disk from the
point of partition table view? <br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The two are not mutually exclusive and not two alternatives in a
single choice, so that's a nonsense question.</p>
<p>The choices that one has in this area are between Basic and Dynamic
discs, and between the MBR and the EFI partition table.&nbsp; Each of the
four combinations that that yields is possible.&nbsp; Whether a disc is
Basic or Dynamic is orthogonal to the type of partition table.&nbsp; Dynamic
discs have a structure built <em>on top of</em> the partition table,
whatever it is, via a system of container partitions.&nbsp; They do not
replace the partition table.<br>
</p>
<p>I have already pointed this out in this thread, once.&nbsp; I also
pointed out that <a
href="http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc758966%28WS.10%29.aspx">TechNet
has a detailed and fairly clear explanation of this</a>.&nbsp; This very
point is even made <em>in the first sentence</em> of <a
href="http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc758035%28WS.10%29.aspx">this
TechNet article</a>.&nbsp; Go and read TechNet!<br>
</p>
</body>
</html>

[Jonathan de Boyne Pollard]

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<blockquote cite="mid:%***@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl"
type="cite">
<blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<blockquote cite="mid:***@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl"
type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<p wrap="">There are no other partition tables on the disk. How
are you determining that the MBR and Partition Table is missing or
corrupt? Which tools are&nbsp;you using to get to this conclusion?<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<p wrap="">I'm using a hex viewer to see the contents of a disk.
Search the first 4 bytes of sector 0 in entire disk, you will find it. <br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That's not the way to determine that the partition table is
missing or corrupt.&nbsp; That's nothing to do with it.&nbsp; Please answer the
question that you were actually asked, and follow <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/problem-report-standard-litany.html">the
standard litany</a>. <em>How are you determining that the Partition
Table is missing or corrupt?</em></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p>I'm using a hex viewer winhex</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>I said that there are some other copies of partition table in disk
on following basis [...]<br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Again, that's <em>not the question that you were actually asked</em>.</p>
<blockquote cite="mid:%***@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl"
type="cite">
<div>
<p>I took one hard disk (IDE) and attached it with my PC as slave
disk. Now my PC has 2 disks. My PC showing all drives from both disk.
Then i open disk 1(slave) in hex viewer and fill 0 at t sector 0 where
partition table exists and save it. After that i found my PC is still
showing drives from both disk. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>And did you shutdown and reboot, so that the operating system <em>actually
re-read the partition table</em>, in the interim?</p>
</body>
</html>