Maximum Size of Dynamic Volume - NTFS 3.1 - MBR style

[Ben]

Assuming these three statements true for NTFS 3.1 for MBR style
volumes on 32-bit Windows:

a) Maximum size of dynamic volume is "maximum volume size of the file
system used to format the volume." (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/bb457110.aspx)

b) Maximum size for NTFS volume is 2^32 clusters (minus a cluster).
Some examples:
For 64 KB cluster, max size of NTFS volume is 256 TB.
For 4 KB cluster, max size of NTFS volume is 16 TB.
(http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserversystem/storage/
getstorfacts.mspx)

c) Maximum size of Basic volume is 2TB regardless of cluster size.
(http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb457110.aspx)
-------------------------

I have a Basic Volume of 2.5TB with MBR style partition table.
(Hardware RAID - Promise SuperTrak 8350 ) It seems to "die" after a
period of time. I think it happens when I fill it past 2TB--this is
being tested as I write this message? (Also, sparing the details, the
array is OK and the individual drives are OK)

If I create a dynamic volume MBR style on 32 bit windows, would this
solve the problem?

[J de Boyne Pollard]

B> c) Maximum size of Basic volume is 2TB regardless of cluster size.
B> (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb457110.aspx)
B>
B> I have a Basic Volume of 2.5TB with MBR style partition table.
[...]

No, you haven't. You yourself pointed to documentation that states
the maximum possible size for a partition, and hence for a basic
volume, when one is using the MBR partitioning scheme.

[Ben]

Post by J de Boyne Pollard
No, you haven't. You yourself pointed to documentation that states
the maximum possible size for a partition, and hence for a basic
volume, when one is using the MBR partitioning scheme.

I didn't say basic volume.
---

It seems I am unclear on what the documenation is saying. You must
admit it is a little unclear.

This is what I'm gleeming:
A hardware RAID drive is seen as a simple volume in windows. (Not
spanned or striped).
This is the diferentiating factor. Partition style (MBR or GPT) or
even disk type ( Basic or Dynamic) does not change the 2TB limit.
Only spanning or striping drives can overcome this--which is the point
of dynamic drives.

For any configuration not spanned or striped (using software RAID),
the maximum size of a volume is 2TB no matter what you do.

[J de Boyne Pollard]

B> c) Maximum size of Basic volume is 2TB regardless of cluster size.
B> (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb457110.aspx)
B>
B> I have a Basic Volume of 2.5TB with MBR style partition table.
[...]

JdeBP> No, you haven't. You yourself pointed to documentation
JdeBP> that states the maximum possible size for a partition, and
JdeBP> hence for a basic volume, when one is using the MBR
JdeBP> partitioning scheme.

B> I didn't say basic volume.

Yes, you did. "I have a Basic Volume of 2.5TB with MBR style
partition table." are your very words.

B> It seems I am unclear on what the documenation is saying.

You are, indeed. One example:

B> Partition style (MBR or GPT) or even disk type
B> ( Basic or Dynamic) does not change the 2TB limit.

Go and read the documentation that you yourself pointed to. The table
is quite clear that the partitioning scheme is very relevant to the
size limit, with the maximum possible individual partition size in the
MBR partitioning scheme being 2TiB (2.2TB) whilst the maximum possible
individual partition size in the EFI partitioning scheme being 16EiB
(18.44EB).

B> For any configuration not spanned or striped (using
B> software RAID), the maximum size of a volume is
B> 2TB no matter what you do.

Wrong, both as to the limitation and to the size itself. Volume sizes
are constrained by four things: The APIs and the capabilities of the
software and the firmware, the disc I/O command hardware interface,
the partitioning scheme being employed, and the filesystem format.

<URL:http://homepages.tesco.net./~J.deBoynePollard/FGA/os2-disc-and-
volume-size-limits.html>

[Lefter]

Just to clarify that the 2TB limit for a MBR disk (not volumes as they may
consist of many disks) is true only when the sector size of the disk is 512
bytes (which is the default for any storage).
By increasing this size you actually increase the maximum. For example if
you set the sector size to 4K you can create a single MBR (basic) disk up to
16TB.
Most of the modern disk arrays allow changing the sector size from their
config panels.
But beware that you cannot make a disk with sector size different than 512
bytes a dynamic one i.e. every disk that is to become dynamic has to be less
than 2TB in capacity.

All this is not true in 2003 Server SP2 and Vista.

[Edwin vMierlo [MVP]]

I do not 100 % agree with that,

I am of the opinion that you cannot set the actual sector size on a disk,
this is preset by the manufacturer.
Hence you "buy" a disk with a particular sector size. Disk Arrays who can
change the "emulation" of the "device" to a sector size other than 512, are
not common either. Not for home/small office anyway.

So in practice, sectorsizes other than 512 are uncommon... so for practical
reasons the maximum partition size of an MBR partitioned disk is 2TB. you
can offcourse partition your disk using GPT... and then you can create
larger partitions !

please note: you dont "create a disk"... the disk is already there with a
sector size
please note: you do create "partitions" on a "disk" using a "partition
method, either MBR or GPT"
please note: an NTFS "volume" can span one or more "partitions"

also your last remark about dynamic is not accurate

you can have partitions of 2TB which can participate in a "dynamic volume
set". nothing to do with the "capacity" of the "disk"...
you can have a GPT disk, larger then 2TB where a partitions of 2TB is part
of a "dynamic volume set".

Post by Lefter
Just to clarify that the 2TB limit for a MBR disk (not volumes as they may
consist of many disks) is true only when the sector size of the disk is 512
bytes (which is the default for any storage).
By increasing this size you actually increase the maximum. For example if
you set the sector size to 4K you can create a single MBR (basic) disk up to
16TB.
Most of the modern disk arrays allow changing the sector size from their
config panels.
But beware that you cannot make a disk with sector size different than 512
bytes a dynamic one i.e. every disk that is to become dynamic has to be less
than 2TB in capacity.
All this is not true in 2003 Server SP2 and Vista.

[Ben]

I am using a Promise SuperTrak EX8350 which allows me to set the
sector size on the "disk". Windows sees this as one disk, not an
array.

I am going to study the documentation again and try to clear things up
for myself. I am still not 100% clear of the facts here.

To:
"J de Boyne Pollard " Thanks for making me look more confused than I
am. I did not say basic drive in my question. I originally asked if
simply changing to a DYNAMIC drive would solve my problem. (Which if
it will or not is irrelevent--I just wanted to make sure you
understood I was NOT talking about USING a basic drive.)

Thank you everyone for the advice, and BTW, I'm fully admitting I
don't understand the documentation. I was honestly trying to get a
simple answer to a (as I now understand) complicated question.

[J de Boyne Pollard]

B> To:
B> "J de Boyne Pollard " Thanks for making me look more confused than
I
B> am. I did not say basic drive in my question.

I did no such thing. Once again: "I have a Basic Volume of 2.5TB
with MBR style partition table. " are your very words. Go back to
your original message and read it.

[Ben]

I did and this was very helpful: <URL:http://homepages.tesco.net./
~J.deBoynePollard/FGA/os2-disc-and-volume-size-limits.html>

Thanks for the advice.

Go back to your original message and read it.